Quote from BabyShark on March 10, 2019, 4:10 am

There is no such thing as total freedom.

If one's idea of freedom is, "I can do *whatever* I want (even go punch someone in the face or steal their stuff or kill their dog), then the inevitable result is that others can also do "whatever" they want to you, including hurt you, thereby limiting your ability to live freely in peace and safety.

A fine-sounding standard, then, is freedom until you "hurt" someone else.

Then you have to define hurt. If someone is a thief, and you say, "hey, he's a thief," and the thief is upset, does that count? If a thief goes to jail and feels "hurt", does that count? Does upsetting someone by telling the truth count? Does physical hurt equal mental or emotional hurt? What should happen to people who initiate hurting others? When there are multiple opinions, those of the other parties can "offend" the others...so should everyone be forced into silence to avoid all potential offense?

If people try to arbitrarily set up a system of values based on emotion or relativism or the continually changing trends of the day, you'll have an ever-changing mess like you see today, with one generation seeing certain acts like incest as revolting aberrations of decent conduct and having laws to match that stance, and other generations celebrating it as another form of "self expression". Is there an actual standard someplace? Or is right and wrong determined by human opinion? Individual opinion or majority opinion?

People have a built-in concept of justice. In the absence of a governing authority carrying out justice, people often attempt to make their own, such as by killing the man who raped your daughter or sister or wife. (As happened with Absalom who killed Amnon for raping his sister since their father, the king, did nothing when he learned of what happened - (2 Samuel 13 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+13&version=NKJV).

People know that bad behavior should be punished and stopped.

Everyone, even atheists (illogically), have a concept of "should" and "shouldn't". There are things people should do and say, and there are things people should not do and say, even if their primary tenet is "no one, and I mean no one, should ever tell anyone they are doing something wrong" also termed, "you should not force your beliefs on other people!" (other than me forcing the view that you shouldn't do that on you, and the view that children should be indoctrinated to accept my views in schools, and that anyone who disagrees with me should be jailed, fired, or killed!)

People who have arguments and reasons and can discuss the topic are generally content to do so and willing to provide information that explains why they think the way they do.

Those who have only ideology and an absence of merit to those ideas must resort to tactics like name-calling, intimidation/bullying, censoring/banning to silence views that do not agree with theirs.

It is not about silencing actually hateful speech like "KILL ALL __________" or vulgar or pornographic or threatening remarks, though they often try to lump people who have a different view point in with those types of characters and use "hate speech" as a catch-all excuse for any speech that makes those holding views that can't be defended by reason uncomfortable rather than speech that is actually promoting hatred or violence.

It is about silencing people who disagree with a point of view.

I am very much for freedom of speech in the sense of people sharing thoughts, experiences, ideas, and information.

What I *don't* consider freedom of speech is speech that actively hurts other people, such as slander (intentionally lying about others to ruin their reputation), death threats, calls to violence against individuals or groups, targetted harassment, especially by large numbers of people, and things of that vein.

Interestingly, the Bible does give us guides for speech:

Titus 3: 1-7

Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, ² to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

³ For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. ⁴ But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, ⁵ not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, ⁶ whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, ⁷ that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Proverbs 12: 17-22

¹⁷ He who speaks truth declares righteousness,
But a false witness, deceit.
¹⁸ There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword,
But the tongue of the wise promotes health.
¹⁹ The truthful lip shall be established forever,
But a lying tongue is but for a moment.
²⁰ Deceit is in the heart of those who devise evil,
But counselors of peace have joy.
²¹ No grave trouble will overtake the righteous,
But the wicked shall be filled with evil.
²² Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord,
But those who deal truthfully are His delight.

Proverbs 15: 1-4

A soft answer turns away wrath,
But a harsh word stirs up anger.
² The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly,
But the mouth of fools pours forth foolishness.

³ The eyes of the Lordare in every place,
Keeping watch on the evil and the good.

⁴ A wholesome tongue is a tree of life,
But perverseness in it breaks the spirit.

Ephesians 4: 29-32

²⁹ Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. ³⁰ And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. ³¹ Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. ³² And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

Ephesians 4:15 ...speaking the truth in love...

Outside of God's standards of speech and behavior, we have nothing, no real and true standard of human behavior of any kind other than continually changing human opinion. Personal and majority opinions change with time, and even a majority opinion is not unanimous. Basing real truth on human opinion is not logical. If "don't murder" is only a human opinion, violating it if your human opinion says you should can't logically be considered truly wrong if human opinion is the standard-setter.

The truth of God's law is written on our hearts.

Romans 2:14-16

¹⁴ for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, ¹⁵ who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) ¹⁶ in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

There is hope for all sinners, all of us who have not met God's holy standard of speech and conduct.

Romans 10:9

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.